147565-wildstar-not-for-this-average-player-either
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- It's not that there isn't enough to do. He's giving up. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- While it's true that there is need for new content, the main complaint I read from this (and that other thread that sound similiar to this one) is pretty much: ^this. | |} ---- Pretty much this. Who could possibly spend 10 minutes on a boss, trying to use his brain and figuring out how a fight works? That's way too much effort ... | |} ---- I'm sorry to hear it, but I do understand and sympathize with your criticisms. Have fun out there and I hope you'll check in once in a while for more casual content as it comes out! | |} ---- ---- You can make light of this all you want but that doesn't change the fact that a ton of people find the content too hard. This has been brought up numerous times, both by people who love the game, and those who have said "F it, I quit!" The fact is, the game's difficulty level is having a negative impact on player retention, and therefore, profitability. End of story. Also there is this: http://www.wildstarcore.net/dungeons-hard-poll-results-revealed/ Remember, just because you like a certain type of content, doesn't mean that it is what will make this game profitable and keep NC Soft from pulling the plug on it. Telling people to suck it up and "practice and get better" isn't going to help retain players and put money in the bank for NC Soft. Edited November 27, 2015 by Sigma081 | |} ---- Read your own article, though. | |} ---- Seztren already mentioned it, read your own article. The majority actually liked the difficulty of the leveling (!) dungeons. Apart from that, I really don't care for the NCsoft argument. If the devs listen to all the clueless whiners and make dungeons/raids, in best WoW tradition, faceroll-easy, then for me they can shut down the game as well, as it won't be worth playing. | |} ---- ---- This right here is probably the hardest pill to swallow for many of us. I had an interesting discussion with someone much younger than I that can't stand ghouls and ghosts. Says it's impossible to beat and a waste of time to try. I loved that game growing up both in the arcade and at home - and I really couldn't believe how much hatred he had towards it. Many of us grew up with games that enforced a drive for skill to overcome back then. Part of it was the difficulty carry over from arcades that just wanted your next quarter - but it became a part of who we are and how we game. The world has changed and It's just a little heart breaking to see this shift happen that leaves many of us dead in the water or seeking niche games to get our challenge fix. I can definitely understand both sides of the argument as I stated before though. Our breed is becoming fewer and fewer as the years tick on. In a way it almost feels like a betrayal from the industry we helped to rebuild from the rubble of '83 - and I think this is where a lot of the elitism comes from with bitter people angry that people are "just bad at games and ruining it for everyone". You almost can't blame them for feeling that way. But again, times are different. Many that enjoyed the challenge have wives and kids or other obligations that demand a non-investment return. People are getting into gaming now that never played the thirsty arcade games going out of their way to suck down the next 25. They see these challenges as brick walls, and without the same upbringing as us oldies you can't really blame them either. Anyways sorry for the long post. I hope this can help everyone understand each side of the argument and remember no matter where your skill level is we're all in this together as gamers. That's just my two meseta. | |} ---- ---- I enjoyed that article very much. I especially liked this part here: It tells us two things that are very important in this context. First, it tells us that the poll in question was done only a month after launch, when most people weren't even done leveling. Most of them had never even tried Skullcano yet, much less SSM. So the results are overwhelmingly weighted towards just STL and KV. Second, it tells us that the way they got their information was by a poll on a fan website that most players have never even heard of, much less visited. This might explain why the poll leaves us with the conclusion that most people loved the leveling dungeons, when even Carbine has said that they were too hard and nerfed them. Seriously, guys, at least pick fights that aren't already long-since over. | |} ---- ---- I think if they did this they would have to put the normal dungeons at max. I actually think that would be a good idea.. they already scale you down for the low level ones, and scale everybody up for the Halloween event dungeon.. why not just have the exact same dungeon with the exact same scaling to level 50 and reward Adventure gear. Adventures are never run.. but maybe normal dungeons would be. This would both streamline the gearing up curve (because it's impossible to gear up in Adventures.. the queue takes forever), and offer players a simple understanding of the difficulty curve. That being said, I don't think Vet Dungeons are too hard at all. With a little communication and constant paying attention to your surroundings.. you can get through them with just about any pug. The only time failures happen that I've seen is when people ignore you when you try to explain how the mechanic killed them and they just repeatedly die to it because reasons. Or people are going in with sub-50 gear and no runes. With everybody in ilevel 65 blue PVP gear and all High Runes the content is absolutely doable as a fresh 50. Except Protogames. I wish you the best of luck, OP. Every game isn't for everybody.. I just hope you find what you're looking for. | |} ---- See thats the problem. FFXIV was made for people who never touched an MMO before. The endgame bosses were literally made so the new player can beat them. Wildstar doesn't. And that is one thing Wildstar did right, the content is not made for the average player. Tab targetting based combat is old as *cupcake* and Wildstar did it right. I'm sorry you couldnt hold on to it and practice enough to be better at it Edited November 28, 2015 by Hazz Rang | |} ---- I highlighted the problem for you. You're not going to make money, nor keep players by targeting ultra hardcore. | |} ---- ---- Bad player comes to a hard game and cries that its hard. I went to KFC and cried when they had no streak because you know #Logic | |} ---- the problem is that we're not KFC. We're an obscure restaurant, not in France, that serves frog legs. The concern is - can this restaurant with such niche tastes even survive? | |} ---- Well, on the plus side, you can come back and visit any time you want. Your characters will always be there and you don't have to shell out $15 any more just to log back in :) | |} ---- ---- You said it yourself. Its niche so that implies the audience is not that big, but having the audience separated for dumb reasons is the problem. If your solution to your "problem" is making everything slow and easy to digest so noobs can react in time and they dont die to a telegraph on the *cupcake*ing ground then please stop typing. If you want the game changed to be easier, then its clear you wanna play it, but you dont want to try and get better at it. Almost every good player in Wildstar started blowing *cupcake*ing dogshit and Isay almost because its not always the case, there is sometimes that special snowflake that is a 3000 apm japanese 13 year old genius and was born to be good at games | |} ---- I've been here for over a year. Heck I've been here for the original beta. I've participated in both raids and vet dungeons. Personally I don't find it hard. But you know what? The servers are dying again. And the game can't be made cheaper than free. So there's no second chances now. The question is, do you want your niche hardcore MMO to yourself for a couple of months until they pull the plug, or can you be okay with the fact that market has changed and if Wildstar continues on the path it's taking it will close? | |} ---- ---- That is a misconception you see, because hardcore players in every game are looking for an outlet... That's like saying a metal band won't make any money because they aren't Justin Bieber... There is always a demographic and if it's done well then it will attract and keep the hardcore players... Almost every MMO that's currently successful is for the average player, so by my logic they don't have much competition | |} ---- oh you mean like a Chinese? Or a English pub. I can go on if you like. When a player makes a stupid choice and plays a game he wont enjoy then the blame isn't on the game for not providing the player with what he wants. No the blame is on the players for not thinking about hsi choice. I don't play card games because they bore me, I dont play Fps games because they aren't fun for me. I play a hard MMO because i wanted a challenge. My bad for picking the correct game over you picking the wrong one | |} ---- I also enjoy hard MMOs. The question is whether enough people are prepared to pay into this hard MMO to keep it going, I don't think anyone is suggesting you made a mistake, just that the game you enjoy might struggle to be financially viable in the way you enjoy it. Personally I hope the game broadens enough to accomodate more players. 10 Man LFR would be a nice start, but please leave the hard stuff in there. | |} ---- They don't have the team to do everything. It's been over a year and the next tier isn't ready yet. How long do you think it would take to make both a new tier and 10 man content? lets face it the group content that has been added has been pretty shit compared to the content the game provided on day 1. If they had the people to work on different aspects of end game content then that would be good but they don't so everyone just sits here crying and hoping the next drop actually has something for them. | |} ---- Sorry, no. If this game was supposed to be a niche game, it should've been built on a niche budget, not the AAA budget that it actually was built on. By all estimates that I've seen, Wildstar cost somewhere between 70-100 million to make, not counting the costs of maintaining and expanding the game post-launch. So far, their cumulative sales have totaled ~50 million USD--almost all of which was made back at launch. It remains to be seen how much money they've made since going F2P, and I am hopeful that they've improved their revenues a lot, but I sincerely doubt the reboot improved their finances so much that they're back up at sales levels rivaling what they saw at launch. So they almost assuredly haven't even come close to breaking even yet, and they certainly won't do so this decade if they once again allow the population to whittle itself down to a tiny core of hardcore players who want everyone else to become them in order to keep progressing over time. First: hyperbole much? Second: this is a false dichotomy. It is possible for a game to have hardcore content and do well, and several games do. They just don't make that the only version of that content that exists. If you aren't OK with games doing what they need to in order to stay in business along the way of providing you with the content that you want, I'd call that the very definition of "entitled". You're confusing cause and effect there, Mister Spock. There is no successful MMORPG that tunes content to be exclusively for hardcore players because MMOs that do so aren't successful. We know this to be the case because we can simply look at the numbers of the MMORPG playerbase that successfully completes content made explicitly for hardcore players. Even in WotLK, at the height of WoW's popularity, only 2% of guilds had beaten ICC25 within a year of its release. If the MMORPG playerbase consists of perhaps 15 million people, then we're talking about maybe 300,000 players in this demographic throughout the entire world-wide population of potential customers. And they are almost all heavily invested in other games already, where they are at the top of the pack and unlikely to give that spot up just to try something new. When a game is financially sound and doing well without the players who don't enjoy it, then it doesn't need to change a thing and can cheerfully ignore their discontent. But no game that's doing poorly and having trouble keeping electricity going to the servers can afford to do so. Now that would be stupid. | |} ---- So it was popular and had the sub numbers even though not everyone had done all the content. I think this is evidence you can in fact make content that not everyone clears and still have a popular game. | |} ---- You can! The problem is, you need to make stuff for the other 98% that doesn't do that stuff. How much was in WoW at the time of WotLK? I'm gonna bet way more to do than WS has...of course, different points in the development cycle too, but the point remains. You can, and should, have super hard content, but that shouldn't all you focus on. | |} ---- How much raiding content has been added? | |} ---- ---- Explain how there isn't plenty of casual stuff to do in wildstar? People keep bringing this point up and it always falls short. In fact, there are way more casual things to do than hardcore things in wildstar. Edited November 29, 2015 by MoePork | |} ---- None, which is also a problem. Retuning DS from 40 to 20 was likely the big issue there along with so much of their resources going to the F2P transition. It's a shame, T3 Raids should be out now, but they're not. Not talking about just end game stuff with that...looking at the game as a whole. There was just more to it at that point in time. Of course, it had been, 4 years between and a full expansion at that point too. | |} ---- Is this 2008-2010, when WotLK was out? No? Then here's all the things you need to compete with above and beyond what WoW had to compete with at the time: FFXIV, SWTOR, Tera, GW2, ESO, Rift, TSW, Neverwinter, DCUO... and, of course, WoW. :rolleyes: OK, look, I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. WotLK had 11 classes you could play--one of which was only unlocked by getting another character up past level 55 to encourage people to make alts--up to level 80. 6 PvP battlegrounds plus arenas. 45 dungeons, each of which had both normal and heroic modes. 13 raids, each of which had both 10-man and 25-man versions. Kitsune Hazard is right--if you want to argue that WotLK was simply at a different place in its development cycle, go right ahead. But do not pretend that this game has as much non-raid content as WoW did at its peak. | |} ---- Umm PLEASE. Why don't you drop that list down to RELEVANT content at max level. At any given time there are usually 5-6 heroics bgs yes, arenas yes, and 2 raids max that were actually being ran. New raid comes out and you can skip a tier and just go to the 2nd to last tier. If you want to include content nobody does, sure... but why don't we compare fairly. Take wows income and 11 years into account. Atleast 10x the funding and atleast 11x years being live. By that logic we'd have like 80 something raids by now... cool story | |} ---- Sorry, pal, I'm not the one who was claiming that this game's nonraid content compares well with WoW at WotLK. Take it up with Jeff if you don't like it, I wouldn't ever try to claim that the content is--or should be expected to be--similar between a game that's been out for a year and a half and one that has two expacs already. | |} ---- “Wow, people are dying all the time in this area,” they realized. “And then they’re not coming back - it’s just too much.” “You as a player, who might not be used to it at level eight, are just like, ‘Oh, forget this game. It’s too hard’,” says Barr. “We never intended it that way.” - emphasis mine “Everyone said, ‘Oh man, these are the best dungeons ever’,” Barr remembers. “But the problem was that it was just so steep, the incline when you got in there. You have a lot of action mechanics that other games don’t have.” “I kind of understand how it came up,” muses Barr. “Because we’ve been playing the game for so long in developing it, with dodge and telegraphs, we’re pretty good at that. So we were always looking at it going, ‘Oh, it’ll be fine, players will be fine, they’ll get it,’ and not realizing.” More: http://www.pcgamesn.com/wildstar/heres-how-carbine-plan-to-fix-wildstar-will-it-be-enough Carbine realized they made a mistake with the challenge level of Wildstar and tried to rectify it with F2P. The problem is it hasn't changed enough apparently. Consider the ever dwindling population plus the survey just sent out. They know something is up and are trying to address it (hopefully). F2P took most if not all the resources they had to get it live. I don't think a lot of new content will be released until they make the current more accessible. You may like the hardcore mode of Wildstar but more don't than do. If any of their game's isn't profitable NC will pull the plug without a second thought, I've seen it done. If that means moving the slider more towards the easier marker then so be it. Many said they would quit over an over again (pre F2P) if Wildstar ever went free or the content was changed (40 man/easier etc) but Carbine did both anyway. They may rework the game more in the future. They will do whatever it takes to keep it going. In the end it's all about the Benjamins. Edited November 29, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- ---- Yeah, Jeff, I was there as well. Matter of fact, except for a year after Cata, I've been there since launch. And I'm calling absolute bullshit on your assessment that there is more to do in WS than there was in WoW by the time of WoTLK. I get that Wildstar is your absolute game of choice, but you've jumped the shark on this one. Edited November 29, 2015 by Vanguardian | |} ---- ---- That's because every FFXIV boss is scripted and practically designed for the lowest player skill level (not just bosses, the game in its entirety). Let me be entirely honest here though, if you can't deal with dungeons after a year of WS you're probably at the lowest skill level possible and that's lower than even "below average". An average player is at least able to manage raiding GA. If FFXIV is a good fit for you though that sounds about right, for example, I know I used to be able to afk and let my pet's AI handle healing entirely in dungeons. Edited November 29, 2015 by Naix | |} ---- I'm guessing that you remember wrong, then, because WotLK was pretty much raiding three/four days a week on a schedule, doing dailies, farming for mats/rep, wintergrasp, dungeons, and PvP. Rinse, repeat (and it was fun!). What else was there, that I'm missing? There weren't casual raids. There were two boss in a box raids, and that was nice, but they were not pushover raids. Nothing like expeditions. Nothing like Adventures. No World Bosses (except the Wintergrasp boss, which kind of functioned like that, except that it was accessed via PvP), Call BS all you want, but the content you are thinking was there just wasn't. I spent way more time mindlessly grinding stuff in WotLK than I have in WS. And doing dungeons that weren't hard or challenging. And like I said, I enjoyed it. I'm not saying I didn't. I had a lot of fun with WotLK, but I do appreciate that WS has more to do in between raids. | |} ---- ---- don't underestimate just how difficult raid level content is in Heavensward. The only difference is that as a player, you don't have to do it as there are other, more casual ways to get gear and progress. | |} ---- ---- Based on... what, exactly? Do you have access to data that the rest of us don't, that contradicts what the game's developers have said and done in response to their internal metrics about their own game? | |} ---- ---- Have the developers said anything about the difficulty of GA? Regardless, I think he was talking about skill level, not time commitment, and yes, any average player who can commit to a schedule can get through GA, even progression style. I've seen it happen plenty. I actually have seen average players get into non-scheduled pugs and be successful playing alongside veteran players. | |} ---- ---- ---- I always hone in on this kind of statement, because it means someone never got comfortable with the fights. This is the response you have when you're still in panic mode. I've been there, too, learning fights. The fights themselves are actually very rhythmic and one you internalize that moving out of the telegraphs becomes instinctual. Dashes are reserved for someone else making a bad move so you can escape. I watch people for whom the dash option is the only way they get out of telegraphs. They're not where they need to be, so they're always caught off guard. | |} ---- So did I. A *lot* ... :lol: | |} ---- ---- I dont think he doesnt like the game, its just he seems to not improve while playing or he dont want to improve. Wildstar is not very hard if you come behind the combat. Telegraphs are not very hard and they are always the same, they dont change. Thanks to this system you can kill mobs that are designed for 2/3 sometimes even 5 people alone. GA is right now, as (hard) as Swordmaiden was at release. DS is still a tier above, but not even close to what it was. | |} ---- I once had spicy frog legs in Beijing. They were awesome. | |} ---- ---- ---- lol not a bad idea, katia :D seems like it's just 20 people arguing about the same stuff. | |} ---- ----